tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13734864.post6064333471837451738..comments2024-01-04T08:02:29.500-05:00Comments on Attempts: Just Throwin' It Out There: Chris Ware and John UpdikeStephenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16524368948187746248noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13734864.post-54447620963808726152008-08-08T12:43:00.000-04:002008-08-08T12:43:00.000-04:00The closest analogue I can think of is his work in...<I>The closest analogue I can think of is his work in graphic design. He gets commissions (or volunteers) and does things based on the ideas of others or real events.</I><BR/><BR/>That's not a bad analogue, actually -- probably fits the bill.<BR/><BR/>As for The Imp: no, I hadn't heard of it! I've read (in) <A HREF="http://64.23.98.142/indy/autumn_2004/review_raeburn/index.html" REL="nofollow">this volume by Dan Raeburn</A>, but the linked piece indicates that it's <I>not</I> the same as the Imp issue, despite the fact that the same guy wrote both. I guess I'll have to track that down, now...<BR/><BR/>SFStephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524368948187746248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13734864.post-15487300776715483022008-08-08T10:07:00.000-04:002008-08-08T10:07:00.000-04:00Ware, in turn, has (to my knowledge) no body of wo...<I>Ware, in turn, has (to my knowledge) no body of work analogous to Updike's extensive criticism, nonfiction and reviews -- where (as Baker says) some of his best prose appears.</I><BR/><BR/>The closest analogue I can think of is his work in graphic design. He gets commissions (or volunteers) and does things based on the ideas of others or real events. <BR/><BR/>Have you read the Imp edition on Ware?shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13984106582245513722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13734864.post-82201015416698650742008-07-15T06:44:00.000-04:002008-07-15T06:44:00.000-04:00While reading the first half, I was getting to pos...While reading the first half, I was getting to post a comment but then you completely stated it it what I was thinking in the second half. <BR/><BR/>I would say the Chris ware is definitely a genius, he has an ability to focus that goes far beyond that of most people. As a graphic designer he is easily one of the best in the illustration business. However, the stories that I have read seemed a little clouded down by pointless and uninteresting information and characters. Like if my heart was cracking open in my chest, would I really care about the sound of the stove turning on? This being said, in my own cartooning I rip chris ware off all the time (you'd never know). He's ridiculously inventive when it comes to illustrating stories.<BR/>I haven't read Updike, but that paragraph you quoted reads like a hot obsession but it's just about paths. (man-beaten paths I guess) If someone was talking to me like that I would hate them immediately and powerfully. It's like all of those horrible poems you read about some idiot lady's garden. People writing about how a bowl of cherries is a promise that the universe can't keep and shit like that is pointless rambling. The paint isn't the art, it's the picture. The style. The life.<BR/><BR/><BR/>ps <BR/><BR/>apologies for the pointless ramblingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13734864.post-83399729147760719132008-07-14T03:38:00.000-04:002008-07-14T03:38:00.000-04:00Gabe: Hmm. Need to read more of the Rabbit books,...Gabe: Hmm. Need to read more of the Rabbit books, obviously. See above re: unqualified.<BR/><BR/>Zik: The way I'd put it is that I like him in small doses. But I see what you're getting at.<BR/><BR/>David Apatoff: I actually think that there are cases where something is not proved undeniable by denying it (which has to do with implicit conditions in the use of the former, i.e. the implied sense that it's not rationally (e.g.) deniable)... but this isn't such a case and I withdraw the phrase. I meant something like "to me evident and widely-praised by others."<BR/><BR/>But obviously you disagree. If you're still reading, I'd be curious, first, who these "many others" are (are there critical reviews? essays? books?), and second, is there a comics artist who you *would* say was as good in the comics medium as Updike is at prose? I'd love to hear some names.<BR/><BR/>SFStephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524368948187746248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13734864.post-80185908537250022542008-07-14T02:51:00.000-04:002008-07-14T02:51:00.000-04:00The problem with asserting that Ware is an "undeni...The problem with asserting that Ware is an "undeniable genius" is that one can be proven wrong as soon as someone else comes along to deny it, which I hereby do. You have done a fine job articulating delicate and sophisticated connections between Updike and Ware, but it seems to me that you miss the larger point: that the two are light years apart in quality. Ware's visual vocabulary has nowhere near the depth, richness, intelligence or creativity of the vocabulary found in Updike's books. In my view, and the view of many others, Ware is a hard working but formulaic and uninspired artist. His tedious and tiresome work has been embraced as a substitute for art by a generation with short attention spans, but it is hard to take him seriously. That, for me, is the singlest greatest distinction between Ware and Updile.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13734864.post-63739063618660418582008-07-11T13:04:00.000-04:002008-07-11T13:04:00.000-04:00Yeah, I agree pretty much. I find myself liking Wa...Yeah, I agree pretty much. I find myself liking Ware more in theory than in actual practice, if that makes any sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13734864.post-22932575913846641832008-07-11T09:43:00.000-04:002008-07-11T09:43:00.000-04:00"Updike, for instance, is a prose writer at the Na..."Updike, for instance, is a prose writer at the Nabokov level; but does he have any characters who are as powerful as Kinbote, Humbert or Pnin?"<BR/><BR/>Yes: Rabbit Angstrom.Gabehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04143549433130628923noreply@blogger.com